Introduction to Erin Collins, Recipient of the 2023 Joanne M. Garvey Award

Edward Robbins¹ who introduced Erin:

This year’s award winner of the Joanne Garvey Lifetime Achievement Award is Erin Collins, our National Taxpayer Advocate.   And more importantly, is my wife.  I have the honor of introducing, Erin for this award.  I’ve been observing Erin very closely for the last 36 years.  And I think I know something about her character.  She has some very interesting character traits that I believe would be interesting to this audience, particularly the younger lawyers who are trying to figure out how to advance your career.  What does it take? What do you have to do?  How do you advance?  I’ll try to give you some tidbits and observations about Erin as I go along.   

Of course, the best thing she did was marry me and together we have two children, Shelby, Alex, and two of our grandkids and our daughter-in-law joined us today and we are so proud of all of them.  Erin is a magnificent mother and grandmother. And let me give you the first clue into her character.  Shelby said she had a conflict that she couldn’t get out of, it was impossible to come, blah, blah, blah – – but notice Shelby made it a point to join today and is sitting next to Erin.  A normal person who’s disappointed is just not happy. Not Erin, she brought a photo of Shelby, her husband Paul and our grandson, Jesse, so they could be part of the day.  And that was how she reacted to the expected absence of Shelby.  So, there, is your first clue. She doesn’t give up. If she wants something she will do something about it.

 So, I’m looking for character traits, and I know a bunch of them, but I wanted to get someone who’s unbiased.  So, I went on to Google, right? Dr. Google, I figure Dr. Google will tell me something about Erin.   Dr. Google did throw up the standard information, her biography and CV.  But I’m not going to talk about that. That’s, that’s boring. I’m looking for elements within Erin that you might find useful to know about. So, I plugged her into Google, her name, her title, and I got 171, 000 hits in 2. 3 seconds. So, that wasn’t too useful.   But I did get a couple things that popped up early that are kind of interesting. In the last year or so, she was named as one of the top 25 most powerful women in accounting by the American Institute of CPA.  So that’ll give you a clue.   Some people think she’s powerful.  Next.  She was named one of the 100 most influential people in accounting by Accounting Today, which also listed President Biden and Secretary Yellen.  Okay, she’s influential.  Here’s another one, this is an interesting one – Money.com selected her as a change maker for her advocacy work and recognized her as one of 50 innovators shaping America’s economy.  Finances.  Ooh. She’s powerful. She’s influential, and an innovator, and an advocate.  The Money.com one was kind of fun.  If you look at the list, she’s listed between John Stewart and Senator Elizabeth Warren. So that’s a nice little position to hold.  So, we know she’s powerful, influential, and an innovator, but let’s get down to some specifics.  Google also noted that Erin’s a very influential person as she’s been on C SPAN, national media outlets, she is frequently cited in tax news publications, testified from the Senate Finance Committee, U.S. House of Representatives, the Ways and Means Committee, Oversight Subcommittee, and the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on a variety of things.

To prepare some remarks I decided to do an email blast to a few people who work with her and asked if they could give me, I think the exact request was a brief one liner that I can go out with and not take up a lot of time.  Well, they weren’t brief, but I did get some comments back.  I contacted two members of Senate Finance Committee who quickly came back with comments.  And they were not that brief.  Senator Mike Crapo, ranking member the Senate Finance Committee, reports “ The California Lawyers Association has made an excellent choice in recognizing our current national taxpayer, Erin Collins for this year’s  Joanne M. Garvey Award of a lifetime achievement in the field of tax law.  Erin has long worked to advance tax law and taxpayer rights both within the government and private practice. Her most recent contributions as the voice of the taxpayer at the IRS are invaluable for the individuals directly served by the taxpayer advocate, and for those of us who rely on her insight and advocacy as we strive to oversee the IRS.”  Okay, we heard from Senator Mike Crapo.  Erin is an advocate with insight, and people rely on her. Alright, write that down on your list character traits.

Not to be outdone, Senator Ron Wyden, Chairman of Senate Finance Committee, weighs in.  “I commend the National Taxpayer Advocate, Erin Collins, for her years of government service at the IRS and exceptional contributions in the field of tax law.  Over the years, her annual reports to Congress have included many commonsense recommendations to improve the tax system. Members of the Senate Finance Committee on both sides of the aisle have taken notice, and under her leadership, the Taxpayer Advocate Service has helped countless Americans resolve problems with the IRS. Through these efforts, she has demonstrated outstanding leadership and dedication to improving the tax system for the benefit of all Americans.”  So, we have a couple of takeaways from Senator Wyden. Erin demonstrates outstanding leadership and dedication, and she makes common sense recommendations.  Common sense recommendations.  Apparently, that’s in short supply.  So, let’s go to people that she works with, not, senators or members of Congress, and see what they have to say.  Ken Jones, currently is senior counsel at Eversheds Sutherland. She worked with Ken at IRS chief counsel and KPMG.  Ken said, “in late 1980s, I was tasked with starting a tax controversy practice at KPMG.  Erin was on my list of must have attorneys.  I had worked with Erin during my time at the IRS Chief Counsel. I knew she was one of the best attorneys with a rare combination of smarts” and, here’s the important part, this is the real deal, “unmatched people skills.  During her 20 years at KPMG, Erin was recognized within the firm and the National Tax Community as a leading tax controversy expert.  And I repeat, perhaps more importantly, Erin has incredible people skills, an ability to work with diverse groups to achieve consensus and find solutions to complex problems that seem insolvable.  When Erin was chosen by the Secretary of the Treasury to be the National Taxpayer Advocate, I knew he had chosen the best of best.”   So, the takeaway there, Ken flagged it, but I think it’s her most important trait. Unmatched people skills. Incredible people skills.  How did she do that?  I don’t know, maybe, maybe Mary Wynne will tell us. Mary was a former IRS special trial attorney, attorney with Baker McKenzie, then back to IRS counsel, and one of her close friends.  

Mary said a whole lot of stuff. I wanted a one liner and I’d got a whole page. But, she reports, “Erin always made work fun, even in the darkest times.”  So that’s a character trait. Fun. She was a fun person. But on a serious note, here’s an anecdote she shared.  “During one trial, there was a witness in which Erin was doing the cross examination.  And when she asked the witness to read an excerpt from his report, he pushed back and explained he was dyslexic and was uncomfortable reading from the report.”  Now, you may not know this, but Erin is dyslexic.  She was able to push through that and get where she is today, but she is definitely dyslexic.   Mary says, “I recall Erin very gently replied, quote, Mr. Expert, [I’m not going to tell you who he is, you might recognize the guy’s name if I did, so I’ll say Expert] Mr. Expert,  I have dyslexia too.  So let’s see if we can’t get through this together.   Erin very adroitly shut down and straightened out a very difficult expert witness, much to the delight of the trial judge, and miraculously, the expert never pushed back on the rest of the cross examination.”  So, you take away from Mary, unmatched people skills and fun.

Tom Greenaway, her buddy from KPMG, and a former IRS counsel. “Erin is a loyal and caring friend who is a lot smarter than most people.” I guess in spite of her dyslexia, she got through that. “She inspires confidence and suffers no fools.”  Now look, this one I like. “Her insights are always sound, and she can see around corners like no other.  You want Erin to be on your side when you’re in a jam? You want her to be on your side when she’s having fun? She’s the best.”  Now that was a good take away. Erin can see around corners like no other.   She gets it, she sees stuff in the future, and she can see the stuff that nobody else can see out there, the stuff around the corner. That, she does very well. 

Mike Desmond got the record for length.  Mike was IRS Chief Counsel when Erin was selected as the NTA.  Mike noted “Erin was part of the West Coast takeover of the IRS.  Commissioner, Chief Counsel, OPR Director, and Taxpayer Advocate and his takeaway was Erin is a zealous advocate.” He got to see her up close.

I have to mention Francine Lipman, law profession at the University of Nevada, she said that “Erin is a role model for how to serve and lead, she’s an engaged listener.”  And the listener part pops up here repeatedly.  “She’s accessible, actively listens, and acts.”  Okay, so Erin is a listener, and she gets stuff done. Melanie Lauridsenfrom AICPA, she had a couple of good lines. “Regardless of her position, Erin has a gift for making everyone feel important.  From the least to the greatest.”  Well, now, that’s, a good talent. Erin makes everyone feel important.

Caroline D. Ciraolo, partner at the Kostelanetz law firm and former acting Assistant Attorney General for Tax.  She weighs in, she went on and on and ignored my request for a one liner.  “There is something about Erin that draws people in, causes them to share their personal experiences, and encourages them to contribute to solutions. She’s a great listener.” There’s that one again, “both receptive and proactive, and this attribute coupled with her substantive and procedural tax experience makes her the right person at the right time.” 

Okay one more and I gotta get off the stage before Erin divorces me.   Her deputy, Kim Stewart, who sees her work at 1111 Constitution Avenue, the IRS building.  Kim says “She is never too busy to listen.  We follow her with pride and admiration.”  And I’ve observed that her, her employees actually seem to follow her with pride and admiration.  I’m not kidding. They really like her and that’s a major accomplishment for a government supervisor.  I could go on and on, but Erin’s giving me the eye so if I can get her up here.  All I can say is people recognize your extraordinary skills.  So please join me in welcoming my wife, your National Taxpayer Advocate Erin Collins.

Remarks of Erin Collins

The good news is Ed filled up most of the time so I will try to be brief.  But thank you my love for that colorful introduction.

I knew my husband was up for something during the last couple days.  Every time I saw him, he had a smirk on his face and when I asked what was going on he just replied nothing. But I appreciate and want to thank those that you reached out to and who were willing to share.  I look forward to reading the entire write ups as I suspect there were things you did not share. I especially want to thank the two senators who took time to comment.  That meant a lot to me.

Where’s Amy Spivey?  I was honored when Amy informed me that I was selected for this award.  We were both attending an ABA event and it was just before the lunch hour.  The first thing I heard was, Joanne Garvey .  . . . .and then I heard, lifetime achievement.  I honestly stop and said to myself wait, what? Lifetime achievement award?  Is that a hint?  But then I realized that Robert Horowitz received it last year, and he’s still practicing, and the former IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig got it the year before, and Mr. Toscher got it like a hundred years ago.  So, I thought, okay, well this is just an appreciation of what I do, so that’s great.

At that ABA luncheon Pam Olson received the Distinguished Service Award. I think a lot of us know Pam who I have a tremendous amount of respect for.  So, sitting there I thought this is cool. I’m going to listen to what Pam says when she receives the award, and then I’m just going to sort of copy it.  But no, I’m not Pam Olson – my path was quite a bit different.  This probably does not shock a lot of people in this room, but I wasn’t planning on being a tax lawyer. I didn’t plan to work for IRS Chief Counsel, I didn’t aspire to be the NTA.  But I have been incredibly lucky in my journey. 

When Ed and I were driving over here yesterday I had not planned a speech.  Obviously, he had his introduction planned. Um, I had nothing.  I said to Ed, I need to come up with some pithy things to say – to thank people, to thank the California Tax Bar, to thank all the colleagues I’ve worked with over the years.  And we spent two hours basically telling funny stories about the last 35 plus years and laughing really hard.  And at the end of every one of those stories, I said, oh, I can’t share that. I can’t say any of it.

So, the takeaway I want to share today is to encourage those in the room who aren’t Pam Olson and who may not have had their life together from day one but have a great future in which they can shine.  So yes, I am dyslexic, a functioning illiterate, and didn’t learn to read until later in life.  And if you ask my children and some of my colleagues, I still can’t read. I took a little different of a path to get where I am but so proud of my journey. 

When I was in law school, I took one tax case, and my professor told me he wanted to work at IRS Counsel.  He explained they have a program called the Honors Program, and if you apply and are accepted, you’ll have a job before taking the bar exam.  And I thought, cool, that’d be great.  I applied and was interviewed by Frank Phillips. Does anyone remember Frank?  Back then the position was called and ADC, assistant district counsel.  Even though it was 40 years ago, I specifically remember the last question he asked me.  At the time I thought was an unusual question for an interview.  He asked, if you get this job, what do you not want to do? And I clearly remember my answer.  One, I never want to try a case in Court and two, I never want to publicly speak.  I still got the job.  Go figure.

Who did due diligence for that job? It wasn’t me.  So, fast forward, I was a docket attorney in the Los Angeles office for about four years.  And opportunity once again fell on my lap.   Joe Greaves, who was the district council at that time, literally is walking down the hall and he says, Hey, Erin didn’t you work for Savings and Loan before you came to council?  I said, yes, I was in this junior management position in which I was basically a glorified teller.  Makes you ask who gives a dyslexic person money to count.  

I was a teller and I also opened new accounts. Joe said that qualified me and I was appointed the National Industry Council for Savings and Loans.  Didn’t do my due diligence for that position either. I knew nothing about tax and financial institutions.  But it was an amazing experience and my first view into national tax policy. I had the unique opportunity as a baby lawyer to work directly with IRS senior leadership, the commissioner, the chief counsel, Treasury, FDIC, RTC, and the Joint Committee of Taxation.  It was an amazing experience. 

During that time, I was pregnant with my darling daughter, Shelby.  I decided if I was going to continue travelling back and forth to Washington, DC I was not going to leave her behind.  So, for about five years, I dragged my poor daughter to and from DC about 20 times a year.  She was a bi coastal child.  She attended a daycare in the 1111 Constitution Building, and a daycare in South Pasadena, and traveled back and forth with me.  

Currently I am on planes all the time for work, and I look at those parents with kids and I think, how did I do that for five years?  Shelby how did you turn out to be an amazing young and successful lady and not be totally scarred for life?  Once again, I didn’t really think that one through.

When Shelby entered first grade, I made the decision I couldn’t continue being on the road.  So, my next career opportunity was an IRS Special Trial Attorney, and my first case was in San Francisco for a year.  But this time I wasn’t dragging my daughter.  The kids stayed in South Pasadena with my darling husband, who was then the chief of tax division in the US Attorney’s office, a somewhat important job. He became Mr. Mom for over a year and basically took care of the kids, took care of the family, took care of the house.  And at night, he was also my consigliere when I had question about the trial.

So fast forward, my second STA trial was set in Washington and was expected to last many months.  Ironically, the trial date was continued and while in D. C. and I had lunch with Ken Jones.   Opportunity knocked again.  Ken asked if I wanted to come work for him?  I said, sure. 

In essence that was my job interview.  Did I do due diligence? No. I had no clue what I was doing. But I went over to KPMG, I loved it, I learned so much. It was tremendous experience.  When I was in the government, I think I had a bit of tunnel vision.  I would ask myself what’s the law?  What are the facts? What are the policies? What’s the conclusion? What’s a reasonable settlement? How to prepare for litigation? But what I learned very quickly on the other side of representing clients, if it was an individual, the question was usually what’s this going to cost me? They’re not necessarily concerned about principle per se but rather the cost. And if it was a company, what’s the impact on my financials? What’s the impact on my cash flow?  Potentially, what’s the impact to shareholders?  Am I going to be on the front page of some major newspaper?  Seeing the other side was enlightening.  And after 20 years of having a whole different view, I had the opportunity to retire.  Within a very short period three of my largest cases all settled and I thought after 35 years I decided enough is enough. And besides I had some really great people that I saw as the future to take over the practice. And so I retired. But I guess that didn’t last long.

Fast forward several months and when I got a phone call from someone I had worked with an inquiry from Treasury asking if I would be interested in the National Taxpayer Advocate position.  Once again, opportunity came to me. I thought maybe?  But why?  Why not?  I remember after the telephone call I talked to Ed and he asked why do you want that job? 

That weekend I was in San Francisco with some of my former IRS Counsel ladies for the holidays – my trusted advisors, Mary Wynne, Cindy Hustad, and Wendy Abkin to name a few. By Monday, the ladies helped me put a package together and it was provided to the Secretary of Treasury.  Best decision ever.

A month later, I was interviewed, and shortly after that I was offered the job.  So I would like to say, similar to Pam Olson, I planned out my whole life and you too can do the same thing.

I have been incredibly lucky. I have an absolutely wonderful and very supportive family, close friends and great mentors. Thank you to Ed, Linda, Alex, Caitlin and James, Paul and Jesse who aren’t here, but they’re there here in spirit, and my darling daughter Shelby who I am so proud of – thank you all for putting up with me, supporting me, and allowing me to explore opportunities.  I’ve had the opportunity to work with so many amazing people throughout my unconventional career.

And I am so honored to be the National Taxpayer Advocate.  I truly appreciate this unique position and the opportunity to advocate for improvement, advocate for taxpayers, and advocate to protect their rights.  Sitting in this position provides opportunity for change, opportunity to improve the tax system, and opportunity to leverage 35 plus years of experience for the greater good.  This position is perfect for me as I have a habit of asking why or why not?  What can we do better? 

I am honored to lead such great and dedicated TAS team.  And I see Luis Tejada sitting over there. Luis is our local taxpayer advocate from Los Angeles and an example of one of my amazing people. I am so appreciative of what my employees do every day for taxpayers.

My closing plug, as the Voice of Taxpayers, I can’t use my voice effectively unless I hear from all of you.   I no longer see the day-to-day impact of tax administration on taxpayers from their point of view.   We can’t fix things unless we hear from practitioners – tax administration takes a village – change takes a village.

So, thank you, thank you to the Taxation Section and the executive committee, thank you for considering me for this lifetime achievement award – but I would like to think of it as a recognition of my mid-year career not a lifetime award.  And it is a special honor to receive an award recognizing Joanne Garvey’s legal career of shattering numerous glass ceilings, her efforts to bring other woman along with her, and the recognition of her efforts as a problem solver.  And thank you to everyone who’s touched my professional life. There’s so many people and friends I see in this room that I truly appreciate.  With that, I’m giving myself the hook, so thank you.

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¹ Edward M. Robbins, Jr is the husband of Erin Collins and a partner in the law firm of Hochman Salkin Toscher Perez P.C.